BALSAFAS vs RBoS (New Case)

[balsafas]

Hi all,

I've been temped over the last few months to start the reclaim process against RBoS but was always put off by the whole thing. On reading some of the threads and advice given on this site though, I decided to go for it..

So, I've already had my subject data request through and I've gone through my statements. The spreadsheet template is all done, and I'm ready to send my first letter of action.

I have one small question before I do though - and it's related to the way banks claim the charges are a fee for the account and not a penalty.

I had one of their fancy Royalties accounts for a couple of years, for which the bank charged me £10/month running costs. These have been listed on my statements under 'CHG' for charges and have there for been carried over to my spreadsheet and included in the total claim (£2,796.43 inc interest!).

Should I remove these charges, for the period during which I held this premium account from my claim before I proceed?

Other than that - I'm raring to get started!

[Kurt_Hamster]

You can only include charges that were a penalty for something you did "wrong". You can't include charges that resulted in a benefit to you, e.g. the extras that come with a Royalties account (regardless of whether you used them or not). So no you can't claim the Royalties charges.

With RBoS the reclaimable charges are "referral", "unpaid item", "incorrect use of a cheque guarantee card" etc. The mysterious "maintenance charge" is debatable as it's a charge made whenever you exceed your authorised overdraft limit.

[balsafas]

Thanks for that - I had assumed, but wanted to double check anyway.

I've included all of the maintenance charges, they ranged from £10/month up to an astonishing £90/month. The charge for a Royalties account was £10 then it went up to £12. Am I ok just to remove those amounts from the maintenance charges and still claim the rest?

[Sparkie1723]

Hi balsafas
Yes, remove the charges for the running of the account these will be ruled fair and reasonable charges for the service of running your account day to day.
If you leave them in it will cause you big problems and our friends Cobbetts will jump at the chance to rough the waters a bit.

Only claim your "penalty charges" i.e the return of d/d's s.o's and returned cheques, plus the interest IF it was only penalty charges that put you overdrawn. dont try and claim overdraft interest if you went overdrawn without them penalising you.

sparkie

[balsafas]

Thanks for the advice everyone :smashin:

First letter sent to RBoS on Monday this week. Total claim amount was for £2047. Obviously no word back yet but i'll update this thread with any progress made.

[balsafas]

No reply at all from RBoS on the first letter - not that I'm surprised. Preparing the second letter for the postie.

Just before I send though, could someone please confirm which address they are sending their claims to? I sent my first letter to the St Andrews Square address in Edinburgh - that came from the list of registered offices elsewhere on the forums.

:smashin:

[hedgey06]

Try here: PRELIM LETTER & lba

Customer Relations
Customer Central Support
First Floor
The Forthstone
56 South Gyle Crescent
Edinburgh
EH12 9LE

[balsafas]

Thanks dude - is this the address most people are using?

[hedgey06]

It's the one in the RBoS contact information sticky - I'm assuming (given that it was updated recently) that this is the address to use

[balsafas]

I had sent my first letter to the St Andrews Square address in Edinburgh. Perhaps the guide needs a little revision. If I remember correctly, the step by step process said to send your letters to your banks 'registered address'. The address linked to was their head office.

It's now been 35 days since I sent the first letter. Should I just now go ahead and send my second one to the revised address, or should I start the whole process again?

[hedgey06]

The address in the RBoS sticky are the addresses to use for Subject access request, Prelim, lba, etc. You only use the Bank's registered address when you file your claim at court - as this is where your claim is served.

If you sent your first letter 35 days ago, you should send the second letter (LBA) to the address advised in the sticky. Doesn't matter where you sent the first letter - they'll have passed it on to the correct department (presumably) and, if they didn't pass it on, you still sent it! Send the LBA off asap.

[balsafas]

Ah - gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up... navigation can be somewhat fiddly on CAG at times.

lba sent to their customer services address today. Will update this thread with any progress

[balsafas]

Well here we are at day 13 after the lba and still no response at all. I'm going to take the postal strikes in to account and give them until the end of this week to make contact.

Will update this thread with next moves.

[balsafas]

Funnily enough - a response from RBS this evening.

"We believe the charges are fair, transparent and lawful."

It then goes on to say that since they had last written to me (which they didn't) - RBS became involved with legal proceedings with the OFT then much rabble about all claims being on hold.

I expected this anyway having followed the claims of others.

One of the rights it mentions is

"1. You may choose to take your complaint or claim against us to either the fos or the courts in Scotland"

Obviously, because I'm resident in Scotland - there are slightly different processes involved.

I know about this test case, but the bankagreement.pdf file from the OFT website doesn't have RBS as a signed party - even though the OFT does mention their name in the text. Did anyone from RBS sign the agreement?

Can anyone tell me where I stand right now? I suspect a moneyclaim.gov visit coming on so would like to be absolutely certain on how to proceed.

Much appreciated!

[balsafas]

Can anyone help please?

Would really like to get things moving as soon as I can.

Thanks!

[hedgey06]

Originally Posted by balsafas

Obviously, because I'm resident in Scotland - there are slightly different processes involved. Can anyone tell me where I stand right now? Did anyone from RBS sign the agreement? I suspect a moneyclaim.gov visit coming on so would like to be absolutely certain on how to proceed.

Apparently, RBS signed the following day for some reason so they have a separate but identical agreement. I've also asked for further advice on your claim, and the advice I've received is that with the total claim just over £2K you would be into 'ordinary cause' territory. Even if you wasn't it now possibly depends which court you go to (apparently there was a sist granted in Glasgow Sheriff Court).

If you're in Tayside, Central & Fife region you may however be able to split the claim and pursue it as seperate small claims (£750 each) as long as you wait until one is settled before starting another Sheriff Principal rejects banks' defence of res judicata | GLC July 2007' (many thanks to rory for this excellent info )

Whatever you decide to do though, DON'T file your claim via MCOL as Northampton are staying all claims at the moment (further info on this in my signature).

Best of luck

[balsafas]

Originally Posted by hedgey06

Apparently, RBS signed the following day for some reason so they have a separate but identical agreement. I've also asked for further advice on your claim, and the advice I've received is that with the total claim just over £2K you would be into 'ordinary cause' territory. Even if you wasn't it now possibly depends which court you go to (apparently there was a sist granted in Glasgow Sheriff Court).

If you're in Tayside, Central & Fife region you may however be able to split the claim and pursue it as seperate small claims (£750 each) as long as you wait until one is settled before starting another Sheriff Principal rejects banks' defence of res judicata | GLC July 2007' (many thanks to rory for this excellent info )

Whatever you decide to do though, DON'T file your claim via MCOL as Northampton are staying all claims at the moment (further info on this in my signature).

Best of luck

Thanks for the information - very much appreciated.

I live in Glasgow, so would need to deal with the courts in Strathclyde which is rather unfortunate. I'm really kicking myself now that I didnt take action sooner rather than later on this - thought about it for months before I did anything about it. I suspect this test case is putting a lot of people off starting the process now.

I'll have a good read of the information in your sig, though I may need to grab a coffee before I start

I'm quite happy to sit on this for the time being and do more reading, but because of the differences between claiming in Scotland and elsewhere, I'd really like to hear from anyone who has already completed the process or is currently going through the same thing as myself.

Once again, many thanks for the info.

[vonnie32]

RBS made me 2 offers on 2 seperate accounts before the deal on the 27th July, I accepted and returned the paperwork.

They have now sent me a new offer for 1 account which is the same as their previous offer (just under £1k) but with a new piece of paper to sign and on the second account (just over £2k) they have withdrawn their offer. I am waiting to speak to them about this as I type if I hear "thank you for calling, your call is in a queue and will be answered shortly" I might scream!!!!

I have other outstanding claims against them but have not heard anything about these yet but I intend to keep to my timescales and submit my claims as normal at least then they will be in the system to be processed when this is all sorted one way or the other.

[balsafas]

Thanks Vonnie,

I assume you are in or around the Glasgow area?

I'm glad to hear you at least got an offer of settlement from them, gives me a little more hope.

I think I'm just going to move to the next step and submit a claim - don't want this dragging on for ever, and as you say it will at least get into the system.

How did you go about submitting yours? - did you do it direct with the courts?

On the subject of this letter they sent me - do I respond and let them know I am going to proceed anyway?

:smashin:

[vonnie32]

Yes I'm in Glasgow too, dealt with Glasgow Sheriff Court for a previous claim.

The claims I was referring to above I handled differently (I know lots of claims against RBS but over the years I have had various accounts with them!) I let them have their 6 weeks to resolve instead of going straight to court as one claim was over £2k which would have meant splitting it (which the courts could frown upon and be seen as an abuse of their system) or go down the ordinary cause route which I was reluctant to do. I got their offer letter just before the 27th so I was very lucky with those.

The staff at the Court in Glasgow were really helpfull and checked over my forms before submitting them, assisted me to correct any errors and were generally very good and put me at ease.

I have another claim for over £2k which I will be in a similar position to yourself but I intend to submit the claim anyway and at least then it is in the system and I will just keep to the usual timescales for stuff (well at least until someone on here tells me to do something differently!).

Good luck