PRINCE V's BLACK HORSE PPI REFUND

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi all, ( sorry this is a bit lond winded )

I sent a S.A.R request to BH and now I have received copies of the 3 loan agreements from Black Horse and also all transactions relating to each loan.

Loan 1 (No charges as all payments made on time)

Loan amount £1000 @ 59.9% APR
PPI Cost = 181.48 Interest Rate on agreement monthly 5.99% APR 59.9%
Start date of loan 09/10/00
Loan settlement 14/08/01
Orginal Loan Term 25 months @ £75.55

Looking at the transaction sheet there was £831.57 outstanding on loan but a SETTLEMENT INTEREST of £74.63 was added and also REFUND of £75.55 was also added to my outstanding balance bring the total to £981.75??? Does anyone know why these are added???

Was told on this loan no PPI no loan needed the money which is why i took it even at the crazy APR rate. Plan was to keep payments low and clear it as soon as possible therefore i had no need for PPI.

Then came loan two. went to them to reduce APR like i was told to do. I was had during the paperwork for loan one if i pay on time for a while they would give me a better rate in the future. They did that in a way of paying off current loan and reducing APR and but did it in a form of top and gave me some more cash.

Loan 2

Loan Amount £2000 @ 19.8APR
Settled old loan - £981.75
Given CHQ for difference = £1018.25
PPI Cost = £320.50
Opening Balance = £2320.50
Start of Loan 10/08/01
Loan Settled 18/06/03
Orginal Loan Term = 36 months @ £84.17

Outstanding on loan £1147.95 before adding £96 charges for returned payment fees and £52.68 Settlement interest Total to pay back £1296.63

Cant remember about even tallking about taking PPI this time, but i did make a claim so i beleive i would not be able to claim this back, Is that correct????

Loan 3

Loan Amount £2796.63 @ 30.9 APR (Back Higher due to late payment was told)
Settled Old Loan - £1296.63
CHQ received for - £1500
PPI Cost - £667.46
Opening Balance = £3464.09
Start of Loan - 18/06/03
Currently running
Orginal Loan Term - 48 months

I went self employed in march of this year and told them this in there office whislt doing this lastest top up. I was told makes no difference still need to take the PPI as i would not be able to get extra money if it was not taken. I made a claim on this loan which they paid out due to broken leg and being of work but should they have paid out because i am led to beleive if you are self employed they dont pay out?????

What i am asking for is someone out there to advise on what to do next. I am happy to claim back the charges of £96 on loan 2 but am not sure how to work the interest in which they owe me as there is no break down of their charges just a total at the end and also where i stand on claiming back PPI.

The Loan 1 should be straight forward but with the other 2 loans maybe i should forget about claiming Loan 2 back as i made a claim and with Loan 3 try to cancel it from today as i am still self employed.

All advice is welcome, thanks Mark

ps Loan 3
Currently am £236.05 in arrears which they seem to be charging me 2.26% interest monthly, and have £275 in charges accrued to date which i have to pay of at the end of loan should i complete this loan and then go for the charges later.

[reidnet]

I would send in Subject Access Request to get full details of all accounts, This should show when charges were applied to your account. You will then be able to work out charges and interest..

Ian

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi Reidnet,

I have already sent the S.A.R and they sent me back a copy of the loan agreement and a print off of transactions. It shows the date of when the DD was returned but not the cost of charge as there is just a running total at the end. Another site user suggested that I could add all the returned DD and divide them by the total charges and that should give me the average cost of the DD charges. Work the interest out from that would you agree.

If this is the case what rate of interest would you claim for????

Glad to hear you are feeling better,
Regards Mark

[reidnet]

The interest rate that I used on charges were 8% APR from the date that the charge was applied. The 8% APR seems to be accepted without question by the courts, well here in Scotland anyway.

You could always go for Contractual Interest rate, that is the rate that they would charge you on your loan. You would have to prove to court (if it went that far) that the rate you had applied was indeed what they charge you. Ie you would need copy of their Terms & Conditions stating that Interest rate.

That is only my personal opinion, otheres may have other ideas, so maybe worth asking around too.

Ian

[Nightmare4banks]

Mark in reply to your post and in my opinion:

1.Normally you would not be able to request a refund on PPI if you have had made a claim.However,if your claim is relatively small to the amount of PPI paid you may have a case.

2.If you want to claim interest on the PPI - claim it on the contractual rate.This is what I got in my refund myself.If the rate is variable aim for the highest rate but if you have one or two £30 late payment fees do not request that they refunded.It is a balancing act.In my case,I sacrificed £60 and gained over £2k - so I think I did quite well overall.

3.In order to help you with specific itemized amounts of refunds etc,I would need more information.As it stands now what you have posted to be perfectly honest and blunt with you is slightly confusing.

4.Regarding your claim and being self-employed this would depend on the terms of policy but it may have have paid you not because you are self-employed but because you became incapable of work due to accident and injury etc here - not sure here just a guess!

5.There is nothing stopping you from cancelling the PPI from now onwards.
Accordingly,you should expect the monthly instalments to decrease.

Anyway,I hope you find this information useful.

If you have any more questions,just ask.

Keep us posted.

All the best!

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi Nightmare,

Thanks for you reply and your time.

I have read your points and would like you to help with itemized amounts of refunds. Could you please inform me of what you need to know or how to do it as i thought the figures i posted were the ones you needed.

I have since contacted Black Horse and asked when i settled one loan to take the top up loan should i receive money back on the PPI as i have paid the loan off early, i was told yes but looking at the statements they supplied one with it was clear this has not happen, during that phone call, i was told i would receive a letter from them by the end of the week clearing this matter up.

I would be happy with a received money back due to early settlement and cancel the PPI on current loan as i feel that having made claims i with at the time i did benefit from having the cover.

The main PPI refund i want back is on my Loan 1 as this is when it all started No PPI = No Loan. I made no claim on this one so i feel this is my best chance to get a full refund.

Thank again for your time.

Mp

[gemspan]

Hi there

I am currently in dispute with Black Horse over PPI. I took out a loan for £15,000 and was offered a lowered interest rate if I took PPI. A year later I am selling my house and want to settle the loan. In June of this year I got a settlement figure of £15,000+ and the settlement figure now is just under £20,000. This is because I had to claim the PPI insurance when I had an illness earlier this year. They say I am getting no premiums back.

Now, I am arguing that the premiums are for the full term of the loan and if I am settling this loan early I am not having the advantage of PPI - nor do I need it for 9 years so why am I being charged for it. I would say that they can only take the premiums for the year I have already been covered plus the amount they paid out in claims. This will total at most £1500 - not £5000 that they are taking.

There is a post I have read on this forum about somebody taking a bank to court because they were forced to take out the PPI in order to get the loan. This is actually illegal and they have missold you that policy and hence you should be claiming for all the PPIs that have been sold to you under this threat.

Black Horse seem to be quite good at doing this. The PPI is never explained to you and even the manager admitted to me that he doesnt know really how it works. Eeeek!!!!!! They are selling the product so they should know exactly how it works. I would go for it and ask for am itemised breakdown of the charges under the terms of the Subject Access Request. They will need to provide you with the charges that they apply and why they are being applied. Well, I would think they would anyway. They can't just say you owe us this in charges without telling you what the charges are for.

Quote by Nightmare4banks "Normally you would not be able to request a refund on PPI if you have had made a claim.However,if your claim is relatively small to the amount of PPI paid you may have a case."

Why do you say this nightmare? If you are settling a loan then the insurance is null and void because it is to protect that loan. You are therefore entitled to the premiums you would have paid if the loan had still been running - would you not? I appreciate that they might want the amount of the claim back and the premiums for the time the loan has been running but they can't take premiums for an insurance that is no longer valid. If the claim is higher than the cost of the premiums left to run then I would say you don;t have a case but I claimed £700 and the premiums over 10 years are £5000 (almost). I am fully intending to only pay the premiums for the time I had the loan and the cost of the claim. I think that is very fair and I would imagine that a court would agree with that. Am I wrong? If so, where has my reckoning let me down? Thanks a lot.

Hope this helps.
Annie

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi Anne,
Thank you for your views concerning PPI's with Black Horse.

I have been promised a break down of the charges and also with an answer to why i didnt received a refund on my PPI payments when i cleared the loan off early and started a new one. Both of these answers should be with me in a form of a letter by them on Friday 10th Nov.

Will update all when or should i say if it arrives tomorrow.

Regards Mp

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi Anne,
Thank you for your views concerning PPI's with Black Horse.

I have been promised a break down of the charges and also with an answer to why i didnt received a refund on my PPI payments when i cleared the loan off early and started a new one. Both of these answers should be with me in a form of a letter by them on Friday 10th Nov.

Will update all when or should i say if it arrives tomorrow.

Regards Mp

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi all,
I did not received any info from BH so have used help from others in order to send this letter. Loan 1 is the only loan i did not make a claim on so i am just trying to receive full refund on this, forgetting about the PPI on 2 following loans as claims were made. Let me know your thoughts and advise any changes if nessary before i post on monday.

Thanks alot again to all those people who helped by letting me use bits of their letters, letter writing is not my stong point.


Re: Agreement Number +++++++++++

COMPLAINT & Request for return of PPI Insurance & Interest.


Dear Sir or Madam,

I took out the above loan for £1000.00 on 10/10/2000. When I took it out, I was signed up for Payment Protection Insurance.

When I took out the loan, I was told that I would not have been given the loan if I did not take PPI. I have since been told that this is not true, and that you are not allowed to make PPI a condition of taking out the loan unless you include the costs of PPI in your quoted loan interest rate, which you at Black Horse did not do. I therefore consider that I have been mis-sold this expensive insurance, which I did not need at that time and which I said that I did not really want, as I planned to keep my repayments to a minimum.

Since this loan was taken out to refinance a high Barclays overdraft that had risen mainly due to unlawful penalty bank charges (a separate complaint currently ongoing) I feel that in a time of being financially vulnerable I was pressured into taking the loan protection.

In addition to this PPI refund I require you to recalculate the settlements figures for each of my two future agreements with you and refund any additional money due as a result of the PPI being removed from the original settlement calculations.

The cost of the Policy was £181.48 plus £108.77 Interest making a total of
£290.25

I request a cheque refund of the policy fee plus any interest paid on the fee.

I feel it only fair that I inform you of some of the information I have found during my research that the CAB sought to launch the Super Complaint for the OFT to investigate the mis-selling of Payment Protection Insurance because so many claims are disqualified and the plans are deemed to utterly useless to the customer.

I would appreciate a reply to this letter within fourteen days. If you reject this complaint, I would be grateful if you could explain whether you provide an internal appeals process. If you do not, please supply me with a final response letter, so that I can take up the matter with the Financial Ombudsman Service, and if need be make a claim via the small claims court to recover the PPI insurance fee + Interest + costs.

Yours faithfully,





Mark Prince

[debt_mountain]

Originally Posted by MARK PRINCE

Hi all,
I did not received any info from BH so have used help from others in order to send this letter. Loan 1 is the only loan i did not make a claim on so i am just trying to receive full refund on this, forgetting about the PPI on 2 following loans as claims were made. Let me know your thoughts and advise any changes if nessary before i post on monday.

Thanks alot again to all those people who helped by letting me use bits of their letters, letter writing is not my stong point.


Re: Agreement Number +++++++++++

COMPLAINT & Request for return of PPI Insurance & Interest.


Dear Sir or Madam,

I took out the above loan for £1000.00 on 10/10/2000. When I took it out, I was signed up for Payment Protection Insurance.

When I took out the loan, I was told that I would not have been given the loan if I did not take PPI. I have since been told that this is not true, and that you are not allowed to make PPI a condition of taking out the loan unless you include the costs of PPI in your quoted loan interest rate, which you at Black Horse did not do. I therefore consider that I have been mis-sold this expensive insurance, which I did not need at that time and which I said that I did not really want, as I planned to keep my repayments to a minimum.

Since this loan was taken out to refinance a high Barclays overdraft that had risen mainly due to unlawful penalty bank charges (a separate complaint currently ongoing) I feel that in a time of being financially vulnerable I was pressured into taking the loan protection.

In addition to this PPI refund I require you to recalculate the settlements figures for each of my two future agreements with you and refund any additional money due as a result of the PPI being removed from the original settlement calculations.

The cost of the Policy was £181.48 plus £108.77 Interest making a total of
£290.25

I request a cheque refund of the policy fee plus any interest paid on the fee.

I feel it only fair that I inform you of some of the information I have found during my research that the CAB sought to launch the Super Complaint for the OFT to investigate the mis-selling of Payment Protection Insurance because so many claims are disqualified and the plans are deemed to utterly useless to the customer.

I would appreciate a reply to this letter within fourteen days. If you reject this complaint, I would be grateful if you could explain whether you provide an internal appeals process. If you do not, please supply me with a final response letter, so that I can take up the matter with the Financial Ombudsman Service, and if need be make a claim via the small claims court to recover the PPI insurance fee + Interest + costs.

Yours faithfully,





Mark Prince

nice letter, I would add the standard letter name, "request for repayment blah blah" and the footer comments form a prelim letter informing them of the time limit you are working to and the next step etc.

have fun.

I am phoning them on Mondy again as I never got my leter and it was meant to contain an offer from the area manager (I am guessing the offer will be the grand total of Zip). When I phone I will be telling them to expect the N1 from the court later in the week.

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi Debt.

Thanks for your input and i have made those changes. great point about the time limit section. Allows me to control things rather then them.
Good luck today with your offer, let me know who it goes.
Thanks again , mp

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi all,

Just a quick update. I had a phone call yesterday from my local Bh office informing me that there head office has passed my complaint to them regarding my PPI refund.
I was told because it was about 6 years ago there was nothing they could do and basically said that was the end of it. However i was told that as i good will gesture as they would hate to leave a bad taste in my mouth they could do something for me.
I have 2014.02 out standing on my loan. This includes £275 in charges which i have to pay at the end of agreement. If i was to pay a lump sum of 1668.09 on the 1st of Dec 2006 that would close my account. Reducing my outstanding balance by £345.93.

I am trying to reclaim the PPI from loan 1 which is 290.25, plus 96.00 charges from loan 2 and 275.00 from loan 3. A total of £661.25.

What would you do, carry on fighting or pay up on the 1st and never deal with these people again.

[MARK PRINCE]

Hi again postie just pop this through my door,

Letter from Bh saying they tried to call me to discuss my letter was unable to reach me. (didnt try hard i work from home and havent been out)

Thanking me for bringing my concerns to their attention, (yes right)

They have liaised with the relvant department and fully investigated the issues i raised.

After looking at the agreement, it shows that the PPI was sold correctly.

I had signed for the PPI, which to them is legally binding and your signature against this confirms that i agreed to make payments on a monthly basis for that product. You will be unable to cancel the PPI as it has gone out of the cancellation period. ( How can i cancel something that was ended nearly 5 years ago when i topped up the loan)
I had 30 days to cancel and they never receieved a letter requesting the PPI be cancelled. (that is because i was told if i didnt have it i would have no loan)
This complaint has been passed to the Finance Center Manager, ( the guy who phoned me see above)
I hope this will resolve your complaint, if unhappy please tell us why and what you would like us to do to put it right. (Are you thick i wont my money back)
If we dont hear from you in 8 weeks well assume that my concerns have been resolved. (there will be a letter on its way in days when i have decided what to do )

Please help, what should be my next step??????????
LBA letter or take the above offer

Regards Mark